A New Ceramic for CEREC - Celtra Duo
Dentsply’s Celtra Duo is a new class of material known as “zirconia-reinforced lithium silicate ceramic” or ZLS. The crystalline matrix is considerably finer than lithium disilicate. The 10% content of zirconium oxide is virtually dissolved at the molecular level resulting in some unique properties. Because of the fine matrix, Celtra Duo can be milled in its final crystallized state and at its original strength of 420 MPa. Once milled the material can be polished and delivered at 210 MPa, which is higher than traditional glass ceramics. If desired the material can be glaze-fired for approximately 12 minutes bringing the material up to 370 MPa, suitable for most posterior applications.
The physical properties of the material lead to a block that mills very fine, with no marginal chipping. The fine ZLS microstructure allow for nice translucency and in-depth opalescence and fluorescence. Characterization can be added with Dentsply’s stain and glaze kit. The 10% dissolved zirconium provides for a rather radiopaque restoration on x-ray. Overall, a very nice block soon to hit the US market.
Hi, conisidering that it's mostely lithium disilicate, do you bake in the oven like Emax? Thanks.
Where did you find that thread? It's an oldie. Celtra is a zirconia reinforced lithium silicate that gives you the option to just polish or for max strength you can glaze fire in an oven.
Different material with a different firing cycle. It is not emax, though it does have some similar characteristics. Firing schedule is attached.
On 4/6/2016 at 10:53 am, Reza Jafari said...I just searched the site and your post came up. So bake at same setting as emax? Thanks.
So what you are saying is that the search function works? 
(sorry chuck- couldnt resist- 
)
You should not have any debond issues iwth Celtra- its similar to emax in its composition - ie a ceramic which etches well. Enamic is a ceramic as well but has a significant resin component. Enamic is also what we call a "resilient ceramic" in that it has a siginificant amount of flexibility - which can be good or bad- its good in that it bends but doesnt break- however in some cases, the increased flexibility can lead to debonds if proper protocol is not followed.
Couldn't help but jump in on this thread, as I've been dabbling with Celtra Duo. So far I've liked it and I find it to be more translucent than emax, which has usually been a good thing for posterior teeth. Here's a side-by-side: #30 emax onlay A1 HT vs. #31 Celtra Duo crownlay A1 HT.
Haven't tried a Celtra anterior yet, but I have my first big case with that material scheduled next month.
I have been using the material for over a year now and have really enjoyed it. Started with Celtra right when we got home from IDS in March. No issues with the material at all. It maybe my computer but I could not view your images Ross. Please post the photos of the larger case once completed and healed. I always enjoy seeing your dentistry.
Justin
Great pics Ross. I can seem them clearly :)
Did you stain the Celtra at the middle 1/3rd?
The Celtra looks really nice.
I love Celtra Duo! I have had no real issues with it after doing several hundred. My number one advice don't over etch. 20 seconds. I have also started using Panavia V5 we got as sample while back on all Zirconia, Celtra Duo , old meal based crowns and really like it.
Those who don't want to fire -80% of those we have done polish only. The rest fire glazed for one reason or another
New Cerec users I suggest trying this great product A glitch in software occasionally choosing Celtra Duo it stops milling You can mill calling the restoration Vita Mark II and just stick the Celtra Duo in No glitches that way and if you want can be fast milled easily
i am very excited to get my Zirconia bundle any day installed now. It might change all my thinking about posterior restorations
Dave, so are you fast milling Celtra Duo? If so, any chipping or more bur fatigue? I'm patiently waiting on my new mill and oven too.
Paul Yes we do fast mill many. It all depends how busy we are. It does increase but fatigue and replacement. Kind of a balance
Thanks Dave. Do you see any chipping on margins? I haven't tried this... Didn't know you could trick out the mill for Celtra.
Just wanted to chime in regarding Celtra. I've been using it 95% of the time since it first came out and have had NO problems. I probably only fire 5% of them. They polish great.
Sounds like many of you polish only for a good majority of Celtra's?...do you tend to reduce more for the non fired cases or do mostly premolars?
I do the same reduction as emax. I use a 2mm reduction diamond. I've put about 1/2 in the oven. Almost all molars. Premolars not so much. To me the benefit of this material over emax is only lack of necessity of crystallization. We can polish in 5 min. So with 2mm of reduction esp in working contact areas, I feel confident. When less, I go w emax on molars.
Thanks Paul and sounds like it is a little more translucent so I would imagine you can tweak color a bit with different cements?
On 4/7/2016 at 6:54 am, Paul Gilreath said... Thanks Dave. Do you see any chipping on margins? I haven't tried this... Didn't know you could trick out the mill for Celtra.
I'm impressed. 20 posts on a Celtra thread without any bashers.
As far as marginal chipping is concerned. The material has the least amount of chipping of any glass ceramic I've used. Although the zirconia is pretty darn good as well. Celtra mills out very very fine.
..for those that you do fire, can you suggest a user friendly technique for spray on & paint on glaze ? Since we cannot use fix or putty the handling
is difficult. Thank you.
On 4/25/2016 at 9:21 am, Bob Conte said...Small forceps or if the crown is non-retentive the small veneer holding sticks work
There's something going on with this thread that won't allow you to post photos.
It is not necessary to glaze Celtra Duo when firing it. Polish it first, then fire. I have had terrible luck glazing that material and I don't bother any more. I polish it and fire it.
On 4/25/2016 at 12:19 pm, Charles LoGiudice said...It is not necessary to glaze Celtra Duo when firing it. Polish it first, then fire. I have had terrible luck glazing that material and I don't bother any more. I polish it and fire it.
Charles, what do you polish with? Which system?
On 4/27/2016 at 8:54 am, Reza Jafari said...On 4/25/2016 at 12:19 pm, Charles LoGiudice said...It is not necessary to glaze Celtra Duo when firing it. Polish it first, then fire. I have had terrible luck glazing that material and I don't bother any more. I polish it and fire it.
Charles, what do you polish with? Which system?
We just had the rep in yesterday who left a couple sample blocks for me to try. He had some Meisinger wheels for demo purposes but also said that many offices use Brasseler products (not sure which). I look forward to finding out what others are using as well.
Tom
Interested in which polish system also. What is the process if custom staining prior to firing?
Thank you,
Patti
I routinely do not glaze. I use:
Diashine F paste on stiff brush and than XF on softer brush although I don't think the brush stiffness make a big difference. I will do that before and after I fire. I will custom stain only when needed. Besides having a yellow groove which only dentists like, they look very natural.
I do wonder though why we use such strong material as I had very low Mark II failure rate since I started in 2002. I always wonder if the time spent firing exceeds the time spent firing. Also, the glaze gets ground off in chewing - look at Christensen's work. But than again we do a lot of clinical stuff with not scientific basis!
I use the Meisinger kit for polishing (product #SC01). Great results,use the small grey wheel last for hi shine as nice as glazed emax as far as I can tell. Saves me lots of time even if I fire it compared to emax. Diamond polish is useful on very distinct occlusal anatomy.
The Dentsply rep told me to fire on the honeycomb tray that came with my oven. he set the programs for me. do we set the crowns directly on the tray to fire with no putty, etc? no pin either? The dentsply stain and glaze kit came with some firing pads and pins?????
thanks,
Michael
On 5/3/2016 at 8:57 am, Michael Ellis said...The Dentsply rep told me to fire on the honeycomb tray that came with my oven. he set the programs for me. do we set the crowns directly on the tray to fire with no putty, etc? no pin either? The dentsply stain and glaze kit came with some firing pads and pins?????
thanks,
Michael
I found some instructional videos HERE, which I'm just starting to take a look at. Use the arrows at the sides of the screen to navigate to the videos. When not staining/glazing you can place it directly on the tray - no pins or putty.
Tom
Hi Dave!
Do you recommend more tooth reduction if not firing Celtra Duo? Also, I see the strength is 210Mpa if not fired, compared to 370. Any concerns with posterior crows if not fired?
Not Dave but will do my best to help answer your questions - In general probably best to fire when placing in the posterior - remember you can just polish and then fire it without the addition of stain and glaze and get the strength needed.
If your plan is not to fire at all then you will need slightly more tooth reduction on the occlusal (minimum of 1.5 at the central fissure and 2 on the cusps) similar to Vita Mark II or EmpressCad as far as guidelines for prep.
its says on the Patterson website celtra duo is no longer supported of list of materials on version 4.4, is this incorrect?
Andrew did good job answering the reduction question. I rarely fire Celtra Duo with no major issues. Trick for those using 4.3 or 4.4 Instead of calling the block Celtra Duo if you call it Vita Mark II it mills fine! You can also do fast mill especially on 4.3 easier Rep told me this when I first started using Celtra Duo when it first was available, works great. . 4.3 did have issues milling sometimes if called block Celtra Duo We almost always just leave the mill as Mark II
For what it is worth I have used 4.3 and every version of 4.4 to date and have always called Celtra Celtra without a single issue. The Patterson website is wrong. (Can you provide a link or screenshot?) No, you cannot fast mill Celtra and to do so will require some trickery, but I've never been a big fan of calling a block anything other than what it is. The milling logarithms are unique to each material. Not worth the risk. The MCXL is not cheap.
Came across this tread and thought I would chime in. Between my associate and I, we've placed more than 600+ Enamic restoration and have less than 10 debonds and less than 5 fractures. Probably more placed, but wanted to ball park. It has been an excellent product for us. We've placed mostly on PM and 1M. Most 2M are zirconia and go to lab. The celtra product is a step up from a polishing and aesthetics standpoint to the Enamic block. I know it's a new product and have been burned (read Lava) by new products, but I'm excited about this one.
