Ivocolor revisited
This topic came up about a month ago and a text from Darin O'bryan finally got me motivated to open this stuff up and give it a test drive... I am very impressed. It works nice.
I don't want to compare it to LustrePastes quite yet... but initial impressions were extremely positive and I'm going to work with this a lot more (probably exclusively) to form a better opinion. I did a 14 unit case with e.max MT with it today. I seat it tomorrow and will take some photographs. I also am going to test the fluorescence of it because the shading and essense pastes supposedly have particles in it. I really like the dentin shading. Really easy to apply.
Looks like we have another winner :) Darin can post his comments as well.
We just got our kit today and we will be testing it as well. I am glad to hear that you like it.
Did you use it after crystallization or in the blue phase?
Farhad
Thanks Mike. We are supposed to test it both ways to see if there is a difference?
I am excited to see the results...yours first tomorrow!
Farhad
Nice! Which kit did you get? I think there were two or three different ones?
Kits
Curse you Mike you beat me to it. I was going to post cases today during my lay over
I got the starter kit. I will echo that the ivocolor works really nice. The dentin shades apply really easy. Similar to luster paste the colors are true to form. What you see is what you get. The colors are very vibrant and there are a lot if you want to get the whole essence line.
The glaze comes in two form regular and fluorescent, which I'm getting to try out. I'll post comparison of both.
The glaze when used with two firings I find looks more like luster paste and needs to be polished. But with the blue, red, diashine and rag wheel sequence it looks really nice. Some of that consistency may be my newness to the glaze and not mixing it correctly.
When done with one firing in the blue state on P3 it becomes very glassy. Which is expected with a low fusing porcelain getting fired at a higher temp. I haven't tried it on a textured anterior in one fire so I don't know if it does what the Identco spray glaze does and fill in all the texture. I'll try that Monday when in back in the office.
On 3/31/2016 at 8:34 am, Carrie Polster said...Hope it's available at the workshops, would love to get my hands on it!
Carrie
Ditto.
Here is a full upper arch just seated today. Sorry for the photos... lots of healing and when I do the lower arch in 2 weeks, I will refine embrasures and get better pictures.
She wanted very minimal stain on the anteriors (we talked a lot about it....) so they are pretty bland... but she is so happy today she cried 
Preops:
Final (immediate seat)...note the molars are the same shade as bicuspids... the light just didn't get on to it the same in the photo!:
On 3/31/2016 at 8:34 am, Carrie Polster said...Hope it's available at the workshops, would love to get my hands on it!
Carrie
We will work on it
Looks nice Mike!! For your full arches are you prepping, imagining, temping and having them back some time later to seat? I'm guessing you didn't have to change her bite much, is that correct? If you are temping, what are you using. If you're not temping, what is your work order?
Thanks,
JJ
On 3/31/2016 at 10:31 am, Jeff Johnson said...Looks nice Mike!! For your full arches are you prepping, imagining, temping and having them back some time later to seat? I'm guessing you didn't have to change her bite much, is that correct? If you are temping, what are you using. If you're not temping, what is your work order?
Thanks,
JJ
This is a very very long, complicated story...LOL
I still have to do the lower arch, but this case will be a large part of my presentation at the April Seminar. The final result was great, but there were many mistakes made along the way with temps, vertical, stitching issues, etc... I will be showing all the mistakes I made and how I corrected them... along with recommendations on how I would do it if I could do it over again. I'm always searching for better ways to do things (especially on comprehensive cases) and when you do this, mistakes are made along the way that you can learn from. I hope you are able to make it.
On 3/31/2016 at 10:38 am, Mike Skramstad (Faculty) said...On 3/31/2016 at 10:31 am, Jeff Johnson said...Looks nice Mike!! For your full arches are you prepping, imagining, temping and having them back some time later to seat? I'm guessing you didn't have to change her bite much, is that correct? If you are temping, what are you using. If you're not temping, what is your work order?
Thanks,
JJ
This is a very very long, complicated story...LOL
I still have to do the lower arch, but this case will be a large part of my presentation at the April Seminar. The final result was great, but there were many mistakes made along the way with temps, vertical, stitching issues, etc... I will be showing all the mistakes I made and how I corrected them... along with recommendations on how I would do it if I could do it over again. I'm always searching for better ways to do things (especially on comprehensive cases) and when you do this, mistakes are made along the way that you can learn from. I hope you are able to make it.
Looking forward to the course and how you get from upper left pic to lower right pic with the digital technology. Great case!
Mike, as usual, a great looking case...I'm surprised Kris hasn't been on the thread yet photoshopping your case just to mess with you
.
So I know you said that you fired this in the blue state...did you do a second firing? I was just wondering if like Darin was discussing if you had to rubber wheel and polish the crowns a bit more after firing like with Lustre Paste?
And one more question...looking at your pics
Did you place the distal line angles out more on the lateral incisors to help with the golden proportions you were trying to achieve...I only noticed the discrepancy of the laterals on the occlusal shot...
Dan-
Bill Marais and I purposely create slight asymmetries with Lateral incisors. It makes the case look more natural. The centrals absolutely have to be symmetric, but I do not like symmetrical laterals. If you have taken any courses from Spear, they teach a similar concept.
So to answer your question. Yes... But it was copied directly off a waxup.
As far as firing. One fire. I polished the anteriors post glaze, not the posteriors.
So do you like it better than Lustre? More user friendly??
Great case. Good to know about laterals since mine seemed to be photoshopped and mirrored a lot :)
That's because your laterals wet too wide the last case Kris...LOL ;)
I don't know what is better though. Ivocolor is easier to apply, but not sure if I can get the same 3D effect yet... Plus Bill tells me that the value will drop too much if you add too much of the Glaze. Need to keep working on it.
Ok, I'm in. I hate the way the luster paste dries out. I use a combination of emax stains with vita glaze and luster paste. Are the properties similar to the other ivoclar stains?
Thanks
Ahhh thanks Michael- you are just too sweet ;) I'll just have to get a wax up from Bill Marais next time.
Thanks for sharing the info. It would be nice to find something as pretty as Lustre but more user friendly.
On 3/31/2016 at 3:05 pm, Kristine Aadland said...Ahhh thanks Michael- you are just too sweet ;) I'll just have to get a wax up from Bill Marais next time.
Thanks for sharing the info. It would be nice to find something as pretty as Lustre but more user friendly.
You know that i'm just kidding :)
And Bill is not perfect all the time. He made some mistakes on this case actually to add to a long list of problems that I had. I don't want to overtake this thread on this case, but we needed to add about 1.5mm to her incisal length because her proportions were not right (about 88%) and she want' showing any teeth at "lip at rest". Bill waxed to existing length, narrowed to tooth to get to 85%, when I wanted 80%. He also did not close the triangle at the midline.
It was not all that bad because it gave me a great guide, but it was not a slam dunk like it usually is. I know that the smile with waxup inserted looks pretty good, but she needed more length and looks much better now. Her husband told me that he is worried she is going to find a boyfriend...LOL
On 3/31/2016 at 3:18 pm, Mike Skramstad (Faculty) said...On 3/31/2016 at 3:05 pm, Kristine Aadland said...Ahhh thanks Michael- you are just too sweet ;) I'll just have to get a wax up from Bill Marais next time.
Thanks for sharing the info. It would be nice to find something as pretty as Lustre but more user friendly.
You know that i'm just kidding :)
And Bill is not perfect all the time. He made some mistakes on this case actually to add to a long list of problems that I had. I don't want to overtake this thread on this case, but we needed to add about 1.5mm to her incisal length because her proportions were not right (about 88%) and she want' showing any teeth at "lip at rest". Bill waxed to existing length, narrowed to tooth to get to 85%, when I wanted 80%. He also did not close the triangle at the midline.
It was not all that bad because it gave me a great guide, but it was not a slam dunk like it usually is. I know that the smile with waxup inserted looks pretty good, but she needed more length and looks much better now. Her husband told me that he is worried she is going to find a boyfriend...LOL
Kris and I need your photoshop skills...we were struggling the other night on a case presentation for a patient of mine...how's that new software coming again? :)
How did you do that??? Add the wax up as the smile design?? That is so cool!!!
And yes, I know you are kidding! Don't take this wrong but I'm glad you run into these problems too. Makes the rest of us feel normal and you more human ;)
Hi Kris
You can do that a lot of ways... But I did this with a combination of Keynote and a software called Pixelmator.
Getting back on track... hopefully Darin will take some time today and post some of the cases he sent me. They are very good with the Ivocolor. I know he was very busy today at the pool in Dallas
Some of the advantages are that it's much easier to apply the glaze I thought and it comes out more even than Lustre Pastes. This could be the overheating affect of e.max cycles, but either way, it looks great. The major thing I liked was the ease of use of the dentin shades. It's the first product I have used that is not spotch and really just "falls" into place. This is really nice with the cervical and creating come occlusal show through.
Disadvantage to the system is that the essence shades/stains are powder and you have to mix them up. Not as convenient as Lustre Pastes and very similar to the inVivo stains from GC. It is pretty easy, but another step. Also, you may not be able to create as much of a 3D affect with this product as with the Lustre Pastes.
I think there is room for both actually... with Lustre Pastes maybe a little more effective on the extensive characterization cases and Ivocolor more effective for the easy to medium cases.
This is only based on one day of use though (all be it 14 units). I will see how it goes.
Our position on IV Color
IV Color is designed as a universal stain and glaze system for IPS Empress, IPS e.max, and Zenostar (zirconia). The restriction was that the glaze is low fusing and was not indicated for use on e.max CAD in the blue state - so we decided to test and are evaluating the results and testing the durability of the glaze if fired in the blue state.
The idea of a universal system was to make it easier for owners to characterize any material with one system and achieve excellent results. Since it wasn't indicated for use in the blue state we didn't actively promote it in the CAD/CAM market, it was launched as a lab product.
It is not available through Patterson Dental yet, we will determine next steps based on user feedback, cases, and test data.
If you have questions, please feel free to ask.
Thank you
Don, what is a difference between e.max stain and glaze we have now and new material? Gregory
On 4/1/2016 at 8:10 am, Don Bell Director of Marketing CADCAM-Ivoclar Vivadent said...Our position on IV Color
IV Color is designed as a universal stain and glaze system for IPS Empress, IPS e.max, and Zenostar (zirconia). The restriction was that the glaze is low fusing and was not indicated for use on e.max CAD in the blue state - so we decided to test and are evaluating the results and testing the durability of the glaze if fired in the blue state.
The idea of a universal system was to make it easier for owners to characterize any material with one system and achieve excellent results. Since it wasn't indicated for use in the blue state we didn't actively promote it in the CAD/CAM market, it was launched as a lab product.
It is not available through Patterson Dental yet, we will determine next steps based on user feedback, cases, and test data.
If you have questions, please feel free to ask.
Thank you
If you do release it as a Doc product, make it easy to use and skip the instructions since you know we wont read them anyways.
On a serious note, consider formulating and packaging similiar to lustre paste. As noted by Mike, the premixed slurry is very convenient for the end user whether lab tech, asst, or doc.
Wouldn't mind trying it out, is it avail through lab sales yet?
On 3/31/2016 at 8:56 am, Mike Skramstad (Faculty) said...Before and after front teeth. Btw... all e.max MT A2
Did the full lower arch today. Here is where we ended up. Turned out great!
On 4/12/2016 at 2:55 pm, Mike Skramstad (Faculty) said...On 3/31/2016 at 8:56 am, Mike Skramstad (Faculty) said...Before and after front teeth. Btw... all e.max MT A2
Did the full lower arch today. Here is where we ended up. Turned out great!
Beautiful Mike! Can't wait to see how the lower turns out!
Still needs a few more weeks tissue healing... but looking good so far
Here is a pic of the central contours:
Ivocolor on highly translucent zirconia (through Straumann CARES). We did this case for one of our referrals (unfortunately some occlusal adjustment destroyed some of the beautiful anatomy). It really showcases the universal applicability of this material.
Farhad
Interesting comparison. #'s 29,30,31 GC Lustre Paste NF five months out and #'s 3,4 Ivocolor today. Like my mother used to say "a little powder and paint will make you what you ain't." Not bad systems for converting a monochromatic into a polychromatic appearance. All eMax MT A2's single fire P3.
