Vita YZ HT zirconia liquids
Just an update on infiltration. I have been messing around with the Vita YZ HT liquids based on a couple recommendations. Like everything it's a work in progress, but I like it a lot. Seems to be pretty intuitive and the colors really come out nicely. I think there are some good methods to lower the value of zirconia using a couple different recipes...
Here is just a really quick one I did this afternoon between patients messing around. It was an A2 block with A3 shade in the intaglio and cervically. An A chroma shade in the fissure and Blue on the cusps and ridges. I got the "A chroma" a bit sloppy and I think i'm going to try the pens on this to make it cleaner.
It's definitely got some potential for sure! This is obviously just polished.
As I'm looking back through your pics, it looks like you're staining the intaglio?!?! Is that correct?
They are available through Patterson
https://www.pattersondental.com/Supplies/ProductFamilyDetails/PIF_669364?mc=0
Love the updates... have gone back to pens unless it's an area I feel like I really need to saturate.
Mark
Messing around with this liquid a little more today on a patient with pretty low esthetic needs...
I definitely over did it and added too much. I started with a C2 block and tried to tone it down even more with a D2 shade... then the A chroma and Blue.
I think if we use the Sirona precolored zirconia, you have to be careful adding too much body liquid... just a couple strokes to tone down the value. If using the plain Vita blocks, more will likely be necessary. I got a little heavy handed here.Â
However, I love the blue... best cuspal translucency I have seen so far. Just polished.
I will keep trying until I get it right :)Â Like it a lot though.
Is it possible to mill Vita YZ blocks in the chairside system and can they be sintered in the speedfire oven?
Just curious
For the moment it's only the sirona blocks for the speed fire. That may change after the big ol Europe meeting this year though.
On 1/17/2017 at 12:59 pm, Kevin Hicks said... Is it possible to mill Vita YZ blocks in the chairside system and can they be sintered in the speedfire oven? Just curious
Here is an A1 Vita YZ HT done with the Vita liquids and the SpeedFire. It might be a touch more translucent, but hardly at all... and it's more difficult to stain with the infiltration liquids because it's not precolored. But it works nice.
I noticed if we use regular zirconia we have to chose a shade down to match , otherwise it is brighter. Gregory
On 1/17/2017 at 3:06 pm, Gregory Mark said...I noticed if we use regular zirconia we have to chose a shade down to match , otherwise it is brighter. Gregory
Sometimes even two shades down. The number one thing is to tone down the value... it's easy to bring in more chroma.
Try this combination:
- A2 on the cervical
- D2 on the body (very light) up to the cusp tips (on all blocks... tones down value)
- Blue over the cusp tips
- very small amount of A chroma in the fissures
Seems to work better than anything i've tried yet. Just did a case that was pretty close. Will get pictures later (battery on camera died). I spoke to James Klim yesterday and he has been working on this combination as well with good results.
We have been trying out Vita YZ HT White for some time for this reason:
We all know that there is very little translucence when the material is more than 1 mm thick and this is very often :), so why not use a stronger material like Vita YZ HT.
The flexural strength is 1200 MPa and the Fracture toughness is about 7.
This means that you can do bridges with 2 pontics with 12 mm2 connector and 1 pontic with 9 mm2 connector.
You need to infiltrate the zirkonia with colorliquid.
If you need some more aesthetic, you can cut back the facial, like a window, and layer some porcelain but keep the occlusale surface in pure zirconia.
The cutback of the facial surface is very easy in the Inlab surface.
Just something that works in our office.
-Mikkel
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On 1/17/2017 at 3:26 pm, Mike Skramstad (Faculty) said...On 1/17/2017 at 3:06 pm, Gregory Mark said...I noticed if we use regular zirconia we have to chose a shade down to match , otherwise it is brighter. Gregory
Sometimes even two shades down. The number one thing is to tone down the value... it's easy to bring in more chroma.
Try this combination:
- A2 on the cervical
- D2 on the body (very light) up to the cusp tips (on all blocks... tones down value)
- Blue over the cusp tips
- very small amount of A chroma in the fissures
Seems to work better than anything i've tried yet. Just did a case that was pretty close. Will get pictures later (battery on camera died). I spoke to James Klim yesterday and he has been working on this combination as well with good results.
How much longer are the oven times when you add the drying to the sintering process?
I did two yesterday
The TZI C took 29 min
The Vita YZ HT took 26 min
Without drying it takes 13-17 min. So it adds 10-15 minutes to the cycle.
On 1/18/2017 at 7:43 am, Mike Skramstad (Faculty) said... I did two yesterday The TZI C took 29 min The Vita YZ HT took 26 min Without drying it takes 13-17 min. So it adds 10-15 minutes to the cycle.
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Are you doing this on every case or more for the pt's who will be picky? Â More on lower molars than uppers?
On 1/18/2017 at 7:43 am, Mike Skramstad (Faculty) said... I did two yesterday The TZI C took 29 min The Vita YZ HT took 26 min Without drying it takes 13-17 min. So it adds 10-15 minutes to the cycle.I don't have the dry mill and may never get it at my dental school but even without the mill and applying wet liquid to the zirconia aren't you wetting it and force you to sinter as a wet zirconia? Ray
I believe that answer will still be Yes, must sinter using cycle predry and sinter.
FWIW, I've gotten some very nice results  with these infiltration techniques and polishing.
On 1/18/2017 at 7:43 am, Mike Skramstad (Faculty) said... I did two yesterday The TZI C took 29 min The Vita YZ HT took 26 min Without drying it takes 13-17 min. So it adds 10-15 minutes to the cycle.
Mike, this might have already been answered but is it okay to use the infiltration YZ HT liquids on zirconia blocks like Sirona blocks? Also, i noticed that they are over $1,000 on Patterson's website, yet still on backorder. Seems incredibly expensive...worth it to buy, though?
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Will Jones
On 1/19/2017 at 8:22 am, Will Jones said...On 1/18/2017 at 7:43 am, Mike Skramstad (Faculty) said... I did two yesterday The TZI C took 29 min The Vita YZ HT took 26 min Without drying it takes 13-17 min. So it adds 10-15 minutes to the cycle.Mike, this might have already been answered but is it okay to use the infiltration YZ HT liquids on zirconia blocks like Sirona blocks? Also, i noticed that they are over $1,000 on Patterson's website, yet still on backorder. Seems incredibly expensive...worth it to buy, though?
Â
Will Jones
Hi Will-
Yes I use the Vita liquids on the Sirona Blocks and it works just fine.. you just have to be careful because it's easy to add too much on a precolored block. They are very expensive for sure. There are other options (White Peaks through Empire Dental) that are a lot less expensive.... I have just found the vita liquids to be more predictable.
Here is one I just did this morning... I'm getting the hang of the liquids and I think this is one of the nicer zirconia crowns I have made from an esthetic standpoint.
- D3 block
- A chroma in the fissures
- Blue on the cusp tips
- A2 at the cervical
- Polished with the Green and Blue Twist polisher followed by Diashine soft
On 1/23/2017 at 12:17 pm, Mike Skramstad (Faculty) said...Here is one I just did this morning... I'm getting the hang of the liquids and I think this is one of the nicer zirconia crowns I have made from an esthetic standpoint.
- D3 block
- A chroma in the fissures
- Blue on the cusp tips
- A2 at the cervical
- Polished with the Green and Blue Twist polisher followed by Diashine soft
Looks great. Â Do you have to buy the whole kit? Â It looks like the cases you have posted you only use a few shades.
On 1/23/2017 at 1:20 pm, John Poston said...On 1/23/2017 at 12:17 pm, Mike Skramstad (Faculty) said...Here is one I just did this morning... I'm getting the hang of the liquids and I think this is one of the nicer zirconia crowns I have made from an esthetic standpoint.
- D3 block
- A chroma in the fissures
- Blue on the cusp tips
- A2 at the cervical
- Polished with the Green and Blue Twist polisher followed by Diashine soft
...
Looks great. Â Do you have to buy the whole kit? Â It looks like the cases you have posted you only use a few shades.
Agreed - very nice!
Methinks it will have a neighbor in the not too distant future (yet we all know that could be several YEARS)! :)
Tom
John-
I actually spoke to Vita about that exact thing today. They are looking at different options to package these liquids to decrease the cost. Stay tuned!
@Tom-
Agree... crown of the year club here :)
Mike, I noticed that many of the crowns that you show in this thread still have a lot of mill marks on them. Have you decreased the prepolishing you are doing?
Also, in another thread, that I cannot find, you mentioned that you are using a c3 as more of a go to block, and increasing value with a b1 liquid as required. Could you expand a bit on this?
You also mentioned unpredictability with some of the other brand liquids: Please elaborate on this as well.
On 1/25/2017 at 12:19 pm, Marc Thomas said...Mike, I noticed that many of the crowns that you show in this thread still have a lot of mill marks on them. Have you decreased the prepolishing you are doing?
Also, in another thread, that I cannot find, you mentioned that you are using a c3 as more of a go to block, and increasing value with a b1 liquid as required. Could you expand a bit on this?
You also mentioned unpredictability with some of the other brand liquids: Please elaborate on this as well.
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The crown I posted above (will post again) demonstrates my newest technique... I don't see a lot of bur marks here?? But the answer is no... i'm not doing as much prepolishing of it. I think I can get it to look fine without. I polish after sinter with green and blue twist followed by the yellow zermat polisher and finish with Diashine soft
I also like the D3 block now more than any other block. If I need to need to tone down the value, I will use D2 vita liquid on the body, if I need to warm it up a bit, I use B2 body. I tend to use A2 on the cervical and A chroma in the fissures.
The Vita Liquids are just more predictable for me.... just a preference.
Mill marks in the earlier pictures, last one is definitely smoother. Just wondering what your thoughts were on texture on molars. I see Bill's work and nothing is smooth, it all looks like young enamel, just not sure if the patients will notice the texture.
Bill is a master and I have learned so much from him. A great mentor for me. However, I tried to simplify the technique a bit more for same day zirconia. When you start to contour the stuff you have to be ultra careful. Give it a try with my method above and see what you think.
Btw... some new anterior techniques coming soon that I learned from Bill!
On 1/23/2017 at 2:03 pm, Mike Skramstad (Faculty) said...John-
I actually spoke to Vita about that exact thing today. They are looking at different options to package these liquids to decrease the cost. Stay tuned!
@Tom-
Agree... crown of the year club here :)
I just ordered individual liquids from Panadent in the UK.  Supposedly shipping to me in NC.  I'll post when they arrive.
I hope I bought the right products.
Â
Hi there. Your recent order on Panadent has been completed. Your order details are shown below for your reference:
Order #85999
Product Quantity Price VITA YZ HT Shade Liquid Classicalshade: A3 1 £21.65 VITA YZ HT Shade Liquid Gingiva
colour: blue 1 £47.05 VITA YZ HT Shade Liquid Classical
shade: A2 1 £21.65 VITA YZ HT Shade Liquid Classical
shade: D2 1 £21.65 Subtotal: £112.00 Shipping: £25.00 via Flat Rate Payment Method: Credit Card via SagePay Total: £137.00
Customer details
Hey Mike - given your experience with Zirconia thus far, can you make any general recommendations as to a few base or "go to" shades of blocks to have on hand? It's time to place my first order... :)
For e.max, I keep virtually all shades in the office - but  would prefer not to initially have that kind of stock in Zirconia until I get more of a feel for it.
Would you say that the unaltered shades, once sintered, are fairly well represented by the Zirconia shade guide?
Thanks,
Tom
I use a lot of D3 blocks and infiltrate to match. D3 is just a good "base" The good news is the material is cheap so you can build an inventory. I would start with A1, C2, and D3 blocks and go from there.
Here is one that is not in the mouth yet.. .so we will see how it looks..
But I infiltrated in the same way outlined above. The only difference is I fired some mahogony in the grooves to accentuate the anatomy even more. So there is still no glaze what so ever, just a tiny bit of stain and polished.
On 2/6/2017 at 3:12 pm, Mike Skramstad (Faculty) said...I use a lot of D3 blocks and infiltrate to match. D3 is just a good "base" The good news is the material is cheap so you can build an inventory. I would start with A1, C2, and D3 blocks and go from there.
Thanks Mike!
On 2/1/2017 at 2:22 pm, Mark Icard said...I just ordered individual liquids from Panadent in the UK.  Supposedly shipping to me in NC.  I'll post when they arrive.
I hope I bought the right products.
Â
Hi there. Your recent order on Panadent has been completed. Your order details are shown below for your reference:
Order #85999
Product Quantity Price VITA YZ HT Shade Liquid Classical
shade: A3 1 £21.65 VITA YZ HT Shade Liquid Gingiva
colour: blue 1 £47.05 VITA YZ HT Shade Liquid Classical
shade: A2 1 £21.65 VITA YZ HT Shade Liquid Classical
shade: D2 1 £21.65 Subtotal: £112.00 Shipping: £25.00 via Flat Rate Payment Method: Credit Card via SagePay Total: £137.00Customer details
Since Patterson indicated that the STARTER KIT  was back ordered, I checked out Panadent UK (HERE) as well, and picked it up through them - saving nearly $400.
I should receive mine (assuming it's in stock there!) about a week after your order arrives. Hope you get yours pretty soon! Thanks for the heads up.
Â
Tom
On 2/8/2017 at 2:47 am, Thomas Lunstrum said...Since Patterson indicated that the STARTER KIT  was back ordered, I checked out Panadent UK (HERE) as well, and picked it up through them - saving nearly $400.
I should receive mine (assuming it's in stock there!) about a week after your order arrives. Hope you get yours pretty soon! Thanks for the heads up.
Â
Tom
Scratch this... they were out of stock AND, due to some type of limit on shipping more than 100mL of liquids, they've refunded my $.
Tom
From what I heard in the pipeline Vita YZ HT stains and Zirconzhan stains are made by the same manufacturer.Â
My order from Panadent for the individual Vita YZ HT shade liquids arrived.  I ordered 4 shades.  Total cost including shipping was a bit under $200 after the exchange rate. Â
Â
Mark
On 2/12/2017 at 3:56 pm, Mark Icard said...My order from Panadent for the individual Vita YZ HT shade liquids arrived.  I ordered 4 shades.  Total cost including shipping was a bit under $200 after the exchange rate. Â
Â
Mark
Interesting. Did your order exceed 100mL of liquids??
Â
Tom
On 2/13/2017 at 10:59 am, Mark Icard said...Yes total volume was 170 mls. Â 3 were 50 mls. One was 20 mls. Â
Â
Mark
That's odd - I have to wonder if they just knew it would be too long for them to get the starter kit back in stock... who knows!
Either way, they refunded the $ within a day or so.
Tom
On 2/16/2017 at 12:25 pm, Igor Denisov said... It's not natural :(
Sam and Mike, this is a guy I spoke to you both!!!!! Gregory
